NorthCoastOregon.com

On Jul 18, 8:13 PM, Ron wrote:

No one has spoke to you?  Would you ever listen?  I don’t think much of the Oregonian but they were right on this one. Full speed ahead.

On Jul 19, 6:41 PM, Oregonian makes sense, sometimes wrote:

Speculators have filed applications to develop more than 1 million acres of desert in Southern California with solar, wind and geothermal power plants, setting up a classic clash over land use with environmentalists and off-road enthusiasts.

American speculators are pouring cash into start-up technology firms seeking environmental solutions - and big dividends

The Importance of Forward REC Markets in Renewable Energy Finance
In addition, creating a stable forward market allows market speculators to enter into the marketplace. As speculators enter the marketplace, there are more potential buyers and sellers of RECs at any given time, enhancing liquidity. Once a marketplace becomes more liquid, participants become more confident in both the viability of the market and price stability.

In short, speculators use money they don’t have to buy something they’ll never get. - Byron Dorgan

Speculators play a vital role in their proper function. This role has never been more apparent than in this new era of electronic trading. That is because the markets are now open to anyone who can afford the risk. Without speculators, there would be no penny-wide markets in equities.

<i>The harangue re “speculators” is just another buzz word being tried to give people a false picture of who is backing a project. Nowadays, you speculate when you buy fruit from Costco, you speculate when you purchase something from craigslist, you speculate when you cross the road. It’s the dumb speculators you have to look out for. So WHAT if some one is speculating?”

On Jul 20, 8:22 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:

On Jul 19, 5:41 PM, Oregonian makes sense, sometimes wrote:

<i>The harangue re “speculators” is just another buzz word being tried to give people a false picture of who is backing a project. Nowadays, you speculate when you buy fruit from Costco, you speculate when you purchase something from craigslist, you speculate when you cross the road. It’s the dumb speculators you have to look out for. So WHAT if some one is speculating?”

Hey!

Nobody said all “Speculators” are “Dirt Bags”

“Speculator"(n): One who invests capitol at high risk in return for potential large profit.

On Jul 20, 10:02 PM, Guest wrote:

Why is it the outsiders always squwalk louder than the locals.  May be the locals are now out numbered by the California transplants.  Why do you out of state invaders have absolutely no respect for the life long residents here who want LNG, and all that comes with it.

On Jul 21, 8:47 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:

On Jul 20, 9:04 PM, the voice of Cape Falcon wrote:

Well, McGee, as much as I see you posting around the various boards and blogs it would be safe to say that there flat just isnt many people in the local area who take you seriously or consider you some sort of voice of authority on local issues. As far asthis...this...Mitchell woman, whoever she is or thinks she is, she’s just another transplanted California know it all trying to impress people with her selfish and outsider driven agenda. Both of you are insignificant voices who garner little attention but put great value on your own opinions. Most of the locals consider you as Seagulls. You know about Seagulls, dont you flatlander? Seagulls really dont do much around here but shit and squawk.

Well, the voices must be significant enough for you to respond to them even though with the predictably virtiolic drivel so common on this site now as opposed to constructive discussion on issues but hey, we all have a right to our view.

On Jul 21, 10:48 AM, Submit A Comment wrote:

I cant help but wonder where this town and other areas of the county would be had this California Mitchell person and her ilk been present the past 150 years when the things we consider important historical landmarks and economic boons in our county were concieved and put into operation?

“No, we don’t want jettys and dredging-it’s ugly.” Or, “we must not allow a sprawling military defense and housing complex to be built at the river mouth and Tounge Point because it’s ugly”. “We think defacing the Astoria river front with fish cannerys, flour mills, grain elevators, lumber mills, warehouses and shipyards so people can produce things just so they can be part of the national and world economy is unnecessary and we dont like it.” “We dont want anyone harvesting the trees and ocean resources because we just moved here from California and we arent dependent on wage jobs to support ourselves.” “We dont think Waunna mill should be built because it smells, is unsightly and it’s all about greedy people who just want money.”

On Jul 21, 12:01 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:

Those darned Californians, how dare they come up here and taint this lovely place in which we live with their big ideas!......Capt. George Flavel, who came west for the California gold rush in 1849 and was lured north when issued a license by the Oregon territorial government as a pilot on the Columbia River Bar. He became Astoria’s first millionaire and amassed large chunks of local property, some of which the family still owns.

On Jul 21, 1:42 PM, Flavel Flav wrote:

On Jul 21, 11:01 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:

Those darned Californians, how dare they come up here and taint this lovely place in which we live with their big ideas!......Capt. George Flavel...

Flavel might be some romantic hero to you, Mcgee, but to his contemporaries he was generally regarded as a blood sucking monopolist.....

On Jul 21, 11:05 AM, Rick Balkins wrote:

History lesson about Astoria....

Unless I am mistaken isnt this historian, Mr. Balkins, a youngish fellow recently arrived from, dare I say, California?

On Jul 21, 3:01 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:

Flavel Flav:

It isn’t the State in which you come from that means anything.

Unlike many people who move from OTHER states, I have studied a bit on the history of Astoria. Astoria was like any town on the frontier. Fishing, Logging, ect. It wasn’t about being a history theme park.

Homes were built for practical and in cases, to personal lavishness.

Some people forget that Astoria was most importantly, a town not a theme park. Certainly, tourism is important in these days for Astoria but things diminish when people coming here because it is some centiennial (bicentinneal) celebration that they’ll stop coming every year. Thus, reducing the numbers per year.

A side note, I don’t particularly agree with Jan Mitchell in everything said or anyone else’s words.

In a matter of a year or two, I would have been living in Astoria for a longer period of time then I have lived in California. I call it home. Sure it isn’t where I was born. Sure it isn’t the big city. Which isn’t all what the movie industry portrays it to be. In fact, not all those ideas will work here or even desired to be here.

Keep in mind that I been living at this place of residence and town of Astoria longer then the previous city/residence I lived at prior to. For a little bit about myself, I was born in Santa Monica, California. Then of course, after leaving the hospital as usual for birth, was living in West Los Angeles area until about 2-3 years old. Then moved Carson, California. Lived there until about the summer of 1995. Then lived here since.

I work as a building designer. Keep this in mind that some of you may have moved in from other States but that doesn’t make you better then Californians NOR does moving in from California makes you better then anyone that has moved in from other States. Even having lived in Oregon, all your life still doesn’t mean you have studied the history of your community. Even forgetting about the community as well.

Now, you talk about Captain George Flavel. Lets remember that the Flavels had alot of ties with San Francisco. Geez, I think I misspelled that California city. Guess, I been living out of California long enough.

Back from a little bit of sarcasm about statements about Californian and my own misspelling. Since we all live here, learning about a particular person in Astoria’s history or select few still doesn’t make you know everything about Astoria. Even some born and raised Astorians don’t know everything about Astoria. Noone does. From what I read about this community, it was at one time - the largest city in Oregon. Then for some time, it was the second largest city in Oregon, behind Portland. Back in the days of John E. Wicks - architect, the Astoria National Bank - IIRC since there was two which is so closely named. One is currently the City Hall and the other the Banker’s Suite. I’m talking about the Banker’s Suite. This bank was the largest bank in Oregon outside of the Portland area when it was built.

A little bit of history, eh. Point was, Astoria wasn’t SO concern about the view (not to mean the view was unimportant) but about the economic status of the community and economic stronhold.

Our economy when down the tubes in the 1960s and 1970s and so on. This all began when several things occured. One was when the Navy left the Tongue Point station. Another was the dredging of a channel to allow ships to dock in Portland directly. This rendered our shipping industry to nill. Why, the obvious should tell you. If the ship can reach Portland, they’ll go straight to Portland and use the warehouses and train hub. Portland had an major airport, main artery hub for trucking and cargo trains. Additionally, it was a larer city with larger ppulation. Hence, larger workforce.

Astoria was hanging on since the 20s until the 60s and 70s because large ships couldn’t make it to Portland and Astoria had the market being the deep water port.

Then the environmentalist movement push in the 60s, 70s, and 80s and increasing regulations had squeezed down on the lumber industry and fishing industry. Not to mention, fish supply and tree supply was progressively shrinking. All of which took its toll.

However, despite all of this, Astoria in particular still had a large inventory asset of existing/historic buildings. A glimpse to the past as big citys were progressively loosing their historic structures to make room for new malls, skyscrapers, ect. Astoria still has that asset and tourism industry began to grow. While we retain this. Other cities lost that and began to look more and more like cookie cutter houses and glass box buildings.

I think in a short summary, it is a short overview of the major aspects of Astoria. Not the personal and family matters so much.

All of this shapes this community. A community that I call home for me. For what its worth, just because someone comes from California doesn’t mean anything. I rather look at things as urban to rural culture. Anyone that comes from another place will have different perspectives that they may bring into things. It is good to have fresh blood and ideas. A note to people moving in, don’t be arrogant and speak as if you are some god given gift and savior. Take time to know and learn about the community somewhat reasonable.

There is alot of matters and issues in the community. Some going for decades.

This covers what I need to say. I don’t particularly side with Jan Mitchell or Patrick McGee. I am rather neutral on this LNG issue for the most part. I see benefits and flaws. It is just a matter of how to decide.

The Daily Astorian is biased and so is the Oregonian in the opposite stance. At least from what I was gathering.

All in all, there is alot of bantering. I live in this community and call it home and have a stake in the matters as everyone else.

This is where I stand. To a degree, I would be offended by remarks about Calfornians just because of some of them were jerks. It is also reasonable for me to understand that there was a history of some folks. Just bear with me and understand me as well as for me to understand you. It is just one contention that I have.

Thank You for bearing through this message and take note of understnding where I come from.

On Jul 21, 7:55 PM, rick balkins wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_River

“[edit] Opening the passage to Lewiston
As early as 1881, industrialists proposed altering the natural channel of the Columbia to improve navigation.[34] Changes to the river over the years have included the construction of jetties at the river’s mouth, dredging, and the construction of canals and navigation locks. Today, ocean freighters can travel upriver as far as Portland and Vancouver, and barges can reach as far inland as Lewiston, Idaho.[13]

The Columbia Bar, a shifting sandbar at the mouth of the river, makes passage between the river and the Pacific Ocean difficult and dangerous, and numerous rapids along the river hinder navigation. Jetties, first constructed in 1886,[34] extend the river’s channel into the ocean. Strong currents and the shifting sandbar remain a threat to ships entering the river and necessitate continuous maintenance of the jetties.

In 1891 the Columbia was dredged to enhance shipping. The channel between the ocean and Portland and Vancouver was deepened from 17 feet (5.2 m) to 25 feet (7.6 m) The Columbian newspaper called for the channel to be deepened to 40 feet (12 m) as early as 1905, but that depth was not attained until 1976.[38]

Navigation locks were first constructed in 1896 around the Cascades Rapids,[39] enabling boats to travel safely through the Columbia River Gorge.[40] The Celilo Canal, bypassing Celilo Falls, opened to river traffic in 1915.[41] In the mid-20th century, the construction of dams along the length of the river submerged the rapids beneath a series of reservoirs. An extensive system of locks allowed ships and barges to pass easily from one reservoir to the next. A navigation channel reaching to Lewiston, Idaho, along the Columbia and Snake Rivers, was completed in 1975.[34] One of the main commodities is wheat, mainly for export. More than 40 percent of all US wheat exports are barged on the Columbia River.[42]

The 1980 eruption of Mount St. Helens caused mudslides in the area, which reduced the Columbia’s depth by 25 feet (7.6 m) for a 4-mile (6.4 km) stretch, disrupting Portland’s economy.[43]”

Take a moment and read.

Another source of information:
http://www.usace.army.mil/publications/misc/un24/c-5.pdf

It is interesting to read and considering technical feat of the Jetty and channel dredgings over the years, Astoria was ahead of the game. Ships that could make it to Portland, did still go straight to Portland as with why stop here and unload the ship and load a train or bunch of trucks if much of it was going to Portland, anyway.

Portland, had plenty of other factors helping it out in growth based on location.

I think I was referring to the largest of ships.

It seems to me that the Astoria area was very quickly to achieving the 30 and then 40-ft depths. We were just ahead of the game if you say in regards to channel depth.

On Jul 21, 9:30 PM, Guest wrote:

Refreshing to see the Oregonian do an article that gives a positive view.  If Ms. Mitchell had to go to work everyday, feed four kids, and hope she has enough for the rent she wouldn’t be against lower energy prices and jobs...must be nice to make yours somewhere else and sell what you had for tons more than you paid and come here and watch the poor pitiful rest of us try to feed ourselves, and teach our kids there’s a future here...getting tougher when folks like her don’t give a damn about our school numbers declining, if this project doesn’t go, just shut down the Columbia for Clatsop County...can’t believe the locals will let her and her red shirts win this one.  The fact that McGee trusts her opinion is enough of a reason to support this industry.  Wonder how you get smarter and better than everybody else, maybe it’s a class she could teach at the college.

On Jul 22, 4:35 PM, James G. Blaine wrote:

Califonians suck. For several resons, They haul their asses up here after fleeing L.A. with too much money collected from an over inflated housing market which gave them extra buying power in barns and ramshackle older homes in a competivie buyers market which placed them out of financial reach of our traditional homebuyers making less than these noveau riche imigrants. So, of course, they immediately cop some instant attitude that they have some roots here and by God they assume since they arent dependent on the local economic output that they somehow should dictate as to what this town needs and just what the river is for, the River has always been the economic lifeblood of the Northwest, yet these recent arrivals now have the goddamn gall to try to claim it’s there own little national scenic playground or something. Hey, individually, they might be very cool people and all that, but for not having long term connections/roots in the northwest they bring nothing but complaints and the desire to take from us what we have depended on for generations. Screw them. Wish they’d go back to California and save that place.

On Jul 22, 6:02 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:

FYI: I moved here when I was 14 years old from California.

I’ll ask you a simple question, what have “I” done to you or this community.

I don’t come here to “save” this community. I don’t come here with some self-ordained superiority over everyone because of where I came from. California school system sucks. I don’t want to go back to California because it is no longer home to me. In fact, California would be about as alien to me. I have memories of the place but when I do visit the area like California - I don’t want to be any part of it. I use my education and experience as would anyone in this community born and raised here would. Since California is the subject of this part of the conversation, I can tell you a little about the place if you even desire to know. However, I don’t care what happens to it. It can sink into the ocean for as much I care.

When it comes to earthquakes, I can share my stories and memories of such because I know this region does not have many “large earthquakes”. My knowledge in seismology (though not an expert) would be fundamental and helpful to people here. As for the river, to me, the river is beautiful but I don’t see it as some personal scenic playground.

When I came here, I didn’t come to “save this place”. Often that is a problem when you move here as an adult for a top job like a city engineer or some position like that. Arrogant people like that should just go back. Regardless of where they come from. Some people use their “college” education and all these letters to make them sound like some person of special authority. An expert. Then again, that is a problem for anyone with their bachelors, masters and doctorates in a profession and speak and have that attitude.

Lets remember, that they studied their science and books on subject matters but they have sometimes trouble de-gearing from being the “perfect elitist” which drove them through college to converse with average joe public. Knowledge is power. Too much power corrupts.

They get the attitude of superiority complex and look down of others.

Sadly, there was an influx of some Californians and folks from other places coming in with that attitude because they moved here for a job not a community to live as a part of. Majority of the problem stems from hiring folks from outside the community. They don’t acclimate with the community at a peer to peer level. They go around with their attitude and stating statements like, “I got my Masters degree in ___________ from UCLA or Harvard or some other university”.

They don’t have to come from California to be a jerk. Jerks comes from anywhere.

On Jul 23, 6:32 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:

<i>On Jul 22, 7:35 PM, Taylor Sands wrote:
Now you’re making some sense, McGee. Im sure the mulitudes are waiting over there on your site for your next exciting cut and paste ripped right from the pages of a couple of day old Daily Astorian<i>

Let’s see, there’s your drivel, this site’s drivel and then there’s......... Newspaper earns 16 state awards for stories, photos and editing.

How many awards did the “Cyber Rag” win this year?

The Daily Astorian won 16 awards, including six first-place trophies, in the annual Better Newspapers Contest of the Oregon Newspaper Publishers Association.

The awards were presented at the ONPA’s annual convention at Gleneden Beach Friday. They honored work published in 2007.

Reporter Cassandra Profita won two first-place awards. She won the educational writing category for a story about a class at Astoria High School that taught students how fish reached their plates. She also won first place in the best writing category for a portfolio of three stories. Her three-part series on the Port of Astoria’s financial troubles won second place in the enterprise reporting category.

The enterprise category was won by a package of stories and photos by Tom Bennett on his second trip to Afghanistan to cover the mission of the Oregon National Guard.

Photographer Alex Pajunas earned three awards. He won the photopage category for photos depicting people protesting the proposed liquefied natural gas plant, second place in the news photography category for a flooding photo during the December storm and third place in the sports photo category for a photo of Seaside players during a break in a soccer playoff.

Steve Forrester, editor and publisher of The Daily Astorian, won first place in editorial writing for a portfolio of three editorials.

Two staff members were honored for headline writing. Coast Weekend editor Kathleen Strecker placed first and copy editor Max Charlton placed third. Charlton also placed third for front-page design for a portfolio of his work.

Sports writer Gary Henley placed second in the sports photo category for a shot of Knappa baseball.

Patrick Webb, managing editor, placed third in the special sections category for his work coordinating the annual Lives They Lived section.

Sue Cody, deputy managing editor, placed third for best sports pages.

Reporter Kara Hansen placed third in the silk purse category for a first-person account of a U.S. Coast Guard training program. The category honors writers who take a basic-sounding assignment and make it compelling.

Summer intern Mark Brown was honored with a third-place award in the religion writing category for a story about the activities at Astoria’s First Presbyterian Church.

The Daily Astorian competes against Oregon daily newspapers with circulations under 10,000.

On Jul 23, 7:52 AM, Guest wrote:

Considering the Astorian writes fiction it is pretty amazing they won, but that’s how traditional journalism tries to bolster their failing readership.  They give each other awards which mean nothing.  How many awards has grass roots people won?  You should get one at least for the best reprint of the articles printed in the Astorian.  I’ll take the objective truth that is written here over awarded fiction and yellow journalism any day.

On Jul 23, 10:12 AM, Rick Balkins wrote:

carmel: natural gas is cleaner burning then coal can ever be. It is scientifically impossible for coal as it is to yield more energy with less energy going into the process of extracting the energy. The energy, therefore is in the application of heat. Natural sas also has a smaller carbon footprint then coal. Even LNG from foreign sources is better then the most cleanest coal power.

This statement is not intended to promote LNG but a statement about coal. Current “real” LNG power generaors provide better energy output then the scientific “ideal” coal generator. Since everything is less then ideal in reality. Coal just doesn’t yield energy all that effective. It would be good for Mars because the difference of planets means practices that are not so good on earth would be great to kickstarting Mars because its too cold to susy\tain life in a natural way so it needs more carbon footprint.

Interesting considering I saw this program last night about NASA plans going to Mars in the upcoming decades and return to the moon. The science behind it.

On Jul 28, 10:07 AM, Country Boy wrote:

What do you think will do more property damage. NSNG/Bradwood 36mile pipeline or one several hundred miles long from Montana?