Opinion
Commissioner Corner
With all the debate and discussion about how best to fight crime and
meet all the rest of Clatsop County’s public safety needs, it’s easy
to forget there are real people behind all those statistics.
I’d like to introduce you to one of those people.
Noah Tollefson was born and raised in Clatsop County, and he’s
probably a familiar name to many county residents. He was to me – he
attended school with my daughter. But others probably know him mostly
from his frequent brushes with the law.
Noah got hooked on drugs as a teenager, and by the time he was 18 was
already involved with the adult criminal justice system. He stole money
and property to feed his addiction, racked up nine felony convictions
for burglary, theft and drug possession, and did three stints in prison
in Oregon and Idaho.
Now 27, Noah admits he was well on his way to becoming a career
criminal. But he was able to turn his life around.
A big motivation was the birth of his son in January 2007. The others
were two local programs designed to help people escape the drug
lifestyle.
Throughout his drug-using and law-breaking years Noah said he resisted
any attempts to turn him around. Substance abuse treatment, boys’
homes, boot camps – nothing worked. “ I refused to do anything. I
didn’t follow any of the rules,” he said.
In late 2006 he was enrolled in Drug Court, a relatively new approach
to fighting drug-related crime that Clatsop County launched seven years
ago. As part of Drug Court, Noah had to attend substance-abuse
treatment, take random urinalysis tests, meet regularly with the
program’s parole officer, Barry Hazel, and make weekly appearances in
front of Circuit Court Judge Phil Nelson, who reviewed his progress.
Noah admits that at first he treated Drug Court like most of the
programs he’d failed before. He had his share of violations, and was
close to being kicked out of the program at one point. But Judge Nelson
and Hazel give him one final chance to straighten out, and Noah, faced
with the real threat of losing his child, buckled down and met all the
requirements. He graduated from the program last spring.
“I felt I was under very close watch, that I was being held
accountable for all my actions,” he said.
Noah also participated in another new program, the Community
Corrections Transition Center. The facility in Warrenton houses parole
violators and low-level offenders in a dormitory-style setting, where
the clients are able to leave for jobs, treatment sessions and other
authorized activities but must return at set times.
Noah did two stints at the Transition Center. He said being “half-way
locked up” at the facility was in many ways tougher to handle than the
total lack of freedom he experienced when he was in prison. But what the
Transition Center offered that made the most difference, he said, was
the opportunity to expand his education, land a job, make some money and
find a home while he was still in the facility.
That’s a stark contrast to prison, where Noah would be released time
and again with no support when he got out, and would immediately revert
back to his criminal ways.
“I was able to utilize the resources they had (in the Transition
Center), so I had everything ready to go when I got out,” he said.
Today Noah has found work with a local contractor and shares custody of
his young son. He’s also broken his ties with friends from his
drug-using days, and fills his free time with surfing, golf and hunting
instead of narcotics.
We’re all aware of the challenges our local criminal justice system
faces, including our overcrowded county jail that turns people loose
after only days or even hours behind bars. The county commissioners
recently received a report from Voorhis Associates that lays out options
for replacing our outdated jail with a new, bigger facility.
It’s important that law-breakers pay the consequences for their
actions. But jail cells alone can’t solve our community’s problems
with substance abuse. As I learned from Noah, even the threat of
incarceration is no deterrent for some people deep into the drug
lifestyle.
“I got to the point I didn’t care about the consequences of what I
did,” he said. “I got used to (prison), it became acceptable –
that was the worst part.”
Noah is one of 78 people who’ve successfully completed Drug Court. Of
those, only 15 have committed new crimes, a success rate that’s far
higher than for criminals who don’t participate in the program. The
Transition Center, meanwhile, houses people who most likely would be out
in the community with little or no supervision.
Programs like these can help break the cycle of crime and substance
abuse that keeps so many people cycling through our criminal justice
system again and again.
“I was the type of person that when people heard my name, they just
shook their heads,” Noah said. “It’s important for people to see
that people like me can change.”
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102 Comments
On Jul 24, 12:18 PM, Finally real information wrote:
What a refreshing hope-filled story. I like news coverage that has value and teaches at the same time. I look for to the next “commissioner corner”.
On Jul 24, 3:59 PM, Brian Balda wrote:
Yes Noah has changed his life. But you failed to acknowledge the fact of his involvement in a 12 step program. You also failed to report how many offenders have gone through Drug Court, probably wouldn’t make the numbers you reported look so good. Or that while at the Transition Center offenders are charged $25 dollars a day. And what exactly is a low level offender? They house sex offenders as well, a fact you left out. If you want funding for a new jail or for Drug Court tell the whole truth. The main thing is that Noah made a decision to break the cycle, without that decision change cannot and will not take place.
On Jul 24, 5:13 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
On Jul 24, 2:59 PM, Brian Balda wrote:
“The main thing is that Noah made a decision to break the cycle, without that decision change cannot and will not take place.”
The most important piece of rhetoric in this entire discussion so far and by no means not meant to degrade Tolefson’s success over his battle or Mr. Balda’s.
The next time there’s one of those staged “Town Halls” with all the Bureaucrats and presumed experts, Mr. Tolefson and Balda should the first contacted to participate as the “Real Experts”.
On Jul 24, 5:19 PM, Respect wrote:
It was respectful of this opinion column to not site the twelve step program given the twelve traditions of AA, and the other 12 step program model. Read the following twelve traditions: these are important because humility is important in recovery.
Main article: Twelve Traditions
The Twelve Steps are accompanied by the Twelve Traditions, guidelines for group governance developed by AA during early days in order to help resolve conflicts in the areas of publicity, religion and finances.
Most twelve-step fellowships have adopted these principles as their structural governance. In AA, the empathetic desire to save other alcoholics resulted in an exclusive emphasis on service to other sufferers, which led to the third tradition, the only requirement for AA membership is the desire to stop drinking. The Twelve Traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous are as follows.
Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon AA unity.
For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority—a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern.
The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking.
Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or AA as a whole.
Each group has but one primary purpose—to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers.
An AA group ought never endorse, finance, or lend the AA name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property, and prestige divert us from our primary purpose.
Every AA group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions.
Alcoholics Anonymous should remain forever non-professional, but our service centers may employ special workers.
AA, as such, ought never be organized; but we may create service boards or committees directly responsible to those they serve.
Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy.
Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films.
Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.
On Jul 24, 10:07 PM, Brian Balda wrote:
Yes it was respectful to not mention a twelve step program, but RESPECT should read the traditions again mostly number 11 as Respect just brought the specified name into public controversy. Also the writer of the article neglected to mention Noah’s involvement in several things other than Drug Court, or the Transition center. His success was a combination of many different aspects not related to the corrections system. To assume otherwise is plain ignorance. And thank you Mr.McGee for your comment, for if nothing changes nothing changes. And I’m tired of seeing intelligent people act with ignorance to the problems of addiction and crime.
On Jul 25, 12:35 AM, whats the problem? wrote:
Samuelson said Noah was one of 78 who have completed Drug Court. She didn’t fail to say how many have “gone through” it. Do you mean how many attempt but fail to go through it?
There is a $300.00 filing fee that is paid directly to Clatsop Community Corrections in monthly installments at the direction of Clatsop Community Corrections.
“staged town halls” whatever, macee. you’re never happy with anything anybody does for long. human beings constantly disappoint you by being human beings.
So what if people are charged $25 a day for being at the transition center?
If I were to listen to the reasoning of Balda then I would have to vote FOR the jail, as he seems to imply NOTHING else will work until the individual makes the decision to make it work. Balda seems to fail to acknowledge that sitting in jail, associating with other criminals without anything better to do than learn how to become better criminals isn’t exactly the most conducive environment to becoming more healthy. You don’t get healthy living with diseased people, whether the disease is physiologically, emotionally, psychologically or behaviorally induced.
Where in the county budget does it say that they fund drug court? If they don’t fund it why would they ask for more money for it? You would rather have a larger jail than a transition center?
On Jul 25, 7:19 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
On Jul 24, 11:35 PM, whats the problem? wrote:
Samuelson said Noah was one of 78 who have completed Drug Court. She didn’t fail to say how many have “gone through” it. Do you mean how many attempt but fail to go through it?
Then don’t insult the other 77 for this “Major Accomplishment” in their lives on all their parts by singling out just one.
The success will be gauged on how many are still holding after graduating?
Fort whatever reason this Commissioner may want to play this bugle, the Drug Court Program does work and should get all our support as many of us in the community are touched by it up close and personal and without choice.
Laud the success of the program, the commitment of Barry Hazel, Phil Nelson and all the others that make this no nonsense, no leniency program work.
On Jul 25, 8:37 AM, shelly wrote:
i just wanted to say we at the selvy home are very proud of you noah you are doing a great job so keep up the good work and keep your spirits high
On Jul 25, 10:03 AM, Brian Balda wrote:
Articles like these are done for one reason, to slightly educate the public, conducive to a small groups agenda. I know Noah personally, his stories, where he’s been and the things he’s done. Change is a process and does not happen over night. His personal story is one of success, I’m proud to be his friend, and it is a privilege to watch him grow along side his son. As for the comment posted by “Whats The Problem” if you think for second that at the Transition Center they talk about anything they don’t in the jail you’re a fool. And $25 a day adds up to $750 for a 30 day sanction. I’m not knocking Drug Court, Judge Nelson or Barry Hazel. But I’ve been to the Transition Center, and I watch the same people week in and week out use that place as nothing but an escape of the real issue. They go out get high get caught go to the Transition Center get off substances for a moment get out get high get caught go back, the cycle stops only when a choice is made. And the commissioner didn’t seek out Noah personally, but asked for the best story she could write about. And it is the best record of someone doing a right about face to do the next right thing. No debate about that. A new and bigger jail won’t solve anything. Treat the problem at the core issue, not whats on the surface.
On Jul 25, 10:22 AM, Rick Balkins wrote:
To stop crime is to stop the desire to do such.
sounds good and is true but easy said then done.
We can’t eliminate crime altogether. Jail should be the avenue for the most dangerous of criminals (murderers, rapists,ect. - some go to high-security prisons). However, since we have so many jails, they should also apply to drug dealers, and some of them.
We don’t necassarily need a new jail - if we were to remove the desire to do crime. Many of which is done out of necessity. Crazy, yes but to a point is. Some people are stuck in positions where they are effectively forced to break the law because society turns the back on these people before they are in prison. Alot of them are poor so they have to steal. Somewhere in the process, some of them get into drugs.
It doesn’t cover all but one of the common theme. Point is, work to solve the problems that lead up to their decision to do crime. If the individual can be reasoned with, then this person can be brought bak into society. Point is, stop turning your backs to them and ignoring their existance. There are reasons/causes/events in their lives that drove them to that direction. some people are not able to be reasoned with and should stay in jail.
On Jul 25, 10:23 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
I’d like to hear some of these Drug Court gradutes (No trick bureaucratic ponies) come to this site, tell their story and what it was that made them turn around and follw through with the process.
I know Mr. Tolefson’s parents and the torment of their trial with Noah’s addiction and abuse.
They are not alone and I can assure you that every graduate of that program has taken all that they love and love them along on a “Nantuckett Sleighride” through hell.
On Jul 25, 10:30 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
On Jul 25, 9:03 AM, Brian Balda wrote:
A new and bigger jail won’t solve anything. Treat the problem at the core issue, not whats on the surface.
I had a young man tell me once that if, at the first time he had to go before Judge Nelson at the beginning of his own journey, the strictest possible punishment had been imposed, within the law, on him, he believes it would have stopped it right then.
On Jul 25, 10:34 AM, Ann Samuelson wrote:
The purpose of this column, which will be done monthly is to let constituents learn about different issues in the County to include programs and services, and to hear feedback as well. I agree that a choice is made, and that is ultimately the change that occurs. However, there are a number of consequences that sometimes motivate one to change. It’s different for every individual, and if programs whatever they are, support that change that’s important as well. One of the most concerning thoughts that Noah shared with me was that prison had become acceptable to him, as decision makers we need to be mindful of that.
On Jul 25, 11:21 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Prison?
Acceptable?
I’m afraid, Ann, prison being acceptable to a “Meth” addicted individual doesn’t even scratch the service of what is accptable and yes, you do need to be very mindful if that’s all that gets your attention as a decision maker in our community, at least from my observation.
Maybe you should make the call to the “Experts” out there to come and testify before you and your Commission Colleagues on the current condition/state of drug abuse and crime in the community.
Who are the experts?
Noah Tolefson and every other Drug Court participant and/or graduate and their loved ones.
On Jul 25, 12:50 PM, Brian Balda wrote:
My last comment on this issue; as it seems that we all are beating a dead horse. I’ve done time inside prison and just about every story of why someone is locked up involves alcohol or drugs. Yet we are released with little or no preparation back to the same environments. Corrections is a money making industry, it creates jobs and is usually a platform for vote getting. So really why would any politician or bureaucrat want it to stop? It is by design that the addicted stay in this cycle. For example when you get caught with meth you go to jail, do not pass go and do not collect $200. And by no means should you get some help you should go to jail and learn how to make the crap!
On Jul 25, 1:38 PM, Respect wrote:
McGee,
As usual you feel the need to slam somebody whenever possible. If you read the article it’s obvious that more than what you commented on got her attention, encourage this type of communication don’t slam it. I do admit though, you are consistent with your rhetoric.
On Jul 25, 1:57 PM, grateful constituent wrote:
What is disturbing about this is it appears that the person who says there is a program that seems to be helping some is being slammed. I know Cora Lane fights for every program she can get at the transition center. I know that the transition center has been grotesquely underfunded in the past and Lane has to fight with Bergin and Marquis for funds as they attack “programs” for addictions. Their idea is to “punish, punish, punish”.
ONE addict saying that if he had been punished to the “fullest” extent of the law without curing the reason for the addiction is bullshit. A small percentage of people are really “cured” of the behavior leading to a crime because they are “whipped”, they just learn how to hide it better.
Samuelson obviously DID ask and talk to an “expert” but it wasn’t the one you wanted her to talk to. I have never seen you attack your darling Marquis in this manner, and ask him to produce “experts” that say how the harsh “prison/jail” punishment works when he or Bergin write about their NEED for a prison. But then again, you obviously have two sets of rules.
Balda’s comments regarding the fact that the story Samuelson told was half of the full story are valid. His attack on her personally for looking for a success story to illustrate maybe reflected his own frustration. Obviously Samuelson wanted to illustrate what is trying to be done, not attack the few people in the justice system, Nelson and Lane, who are actually trying to DO something FOR those members of our society who are caught up in this vicious cycle.
The point that the negative sayers are missing is that recidivism for those who go through the transition center is about 20-30% lower (depending on when the person went through and what programs were offered) than for those who go through just the jail system. Those who go through just jail have about a 67% chance of returning.
57% of the people in jails/prisons are there on drug charges, alone, not counting the people who are there as a consequence of their actions because of being substance abusers.
Smolowe (1994) shares that “Americans’ impatience for quick- fix remedies resembles the frustration that drives inner-city youths to seize on illegal get-rich schemes: they want to cut corners, produce high yields and not pay a price. But grim experience indicates that, as with crime, hard time does not always pay the anticipated dividends. When money is poured into building another prison at the expense of rebuilding a prisoner’s self-image, it is often just a prelude to more - and worse - crime. They start as drug offenders, they eventually become property-crime offenders, and then they commit crimes against people. They learn this trade as they go through the prison system.”
To counter McGee’s claim:
Once on the yard, even a first offender is going to seek out his own kind, and there are all kinds on the yard. They come from all walks of life, and they make friends easily, especially if they are repeat offenders--they are the “old home week” types that cope easily because their “people” are right there with them. Dealing with this is much more difficult because the more they return to prison, the more people they meet. Prison loses its deterrent impact once a person has been through it. They learn they can survive in or out and they do not fear going to prison anymore. So, restorative justice (if there is or was ever such a thing) is a one-shot deal, otherwise etiolation is likely.
Morris & Rothman (1995) describes a survey carried out by the National Council on Crime and Delinquency where the situation of American penal institutions was characterized: “Offenders in such institutions are not as likely to commit further crimes while serving their sentences, but the conditions in which they live are the poorest possible preparation for their successful reentry into society, and often merely reinforces in them a pattern of manipulation or destructiveness.” (p. 173).
California’s prison problems are tied directly to recidivism and overcrowding. When parolees commit crimes, they not only burden the state’s overtaxed prison system—they create new victims and compromise public safety. California’s recidivism rate is, at 70 percent, the nation’s highest. The Governor knows that we cannot fix our prisons without reducing recidivism, and we cannot reduce recidivism without creating more space and programs for prisoners. Two of his proposals address these problems, with the goal of increasing public safety:
Move non-violent female offenders to community correctional facilities
Create secure parole re-entry facilities
Feedback is an excellent way for community leaders to understand the concerns of the public. A certain individual’s constant attack on any and all public leaders who share their thoughts and ideas is mudslinging at its basest. If you can’t find constructive criticism with ideas to generate forward action why are you constantly reading an outlet that does nothing but bring out the worst in you, unless that is what you enjoy best about yourself?
On Jul 25, 2:10 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Before this discussion finds its normal level of degradation as is common on this site, I’m done on this one and thank you for the opportunity to express my view.
On Jul 27, 12:02 PM, Emil "Swede" Nyberg wrote:
Thanks Ann,
What we need is something or some activity in Clatsop County for young people to do before they get caught up in the drug culture; such as a Boys and Girls Club or a YMCA like they had when I was growing up here. Are there any volunteers to help achieve this?
I would be glad to work toward this goal.
On Jul 27, 12:50 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Ann could even win me over if she could help us get an Ice Arena/Community Center here.
On Jul 27, 5:40 PM, David Douglas wrote:
On Jul 25, 2:10 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
....I’m done on this one...
uhh, yeah...sure you are
On Jul 27, 12:50 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Ann bla bla bla me bla bla bla Ice Arena blah blah blah.
Go build your own goddamn ice arena, pal, and quit trying to promote some cockamaimee pipe dream of your’s that you think the public should shell out the expense for.
On Jul 27, 6:24 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Go build your own goddamn ice arena, pal, and quit trying to promote some cockamaimee pipe dream of your’s.
Want to keep kids out of trouble dim witt?
About every municpality in British Columbia, Canada for the matter, has City Run Centers and they work very well.
Samuelson wants to do something to change the atmosphere around this county, she will sure as hell get my vote on one.
On Jul 27, 7:56 PM, Wendy wrote:
I’m with patrick on this one. I hear they are doing something with the Warren Field that is supposed to do with community rec center. Is there room there for an ice rink?
On Jul 27, 7:58 PM, Wendy wrote:
Talking about asking the experts, however, the student government of the middle school and high school should be involved w/planning that community center.
If you want county involved it should be a facility out at the Business Park. And what a project for all of the high school tech classes to be involved with creating, maybe with the college helping as well. Collaboration and teaching tool.
On Jul 27, 8:05 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
100 feet wide x 180 feet or so long would get you a first rate sheet of ice for amateur ice sports and recretional skating for all people, all ages plus conversion potential for many other events to help pay its way.
A project for all students to be involved in?
You are darned right plus employment opportunities for part time work for those same students when it’s ready.
On Jul 27, 9:16 PM, Justin Sayin wrote:
</i>On Jul 27, 6:24 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Want to keep kids out of trouble dim witt?
About every municpality in British Columbia, Canada for the matter, has City Run Centers and they work very well
Yeah, half wit, Vancouver BC sure is a city known for it’s absence of a drug problem.
http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/fourpillars//pdf/report_vancouver_2005.pdf
On Jul 27, 9:30 PM, Justin Sayin wrote:
Wendy wrote:
the student government of the middle school and high school should be involved w/planning that community center.
You’ve just won the NCO Ding-a-ling Of The Day Award. Congrats.
On Jul 27, 9:36 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
Being this is a community in the more northern part of the US, this seems reasonable. I think that a community recreational park (with multiple-types of recreational activities.)
On Jul 27, 9:37 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
The JWF (John Warren Field) is meant mainly for Astoria area. A County-sponsored facility would be great. Part of such facility would include an outdoor sports area which can be used for community sports/tournaments. Suitable for football, soccer and baseball.
On Jul 27, 9:38 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
Indoor facility supporting ice sports and basketball would be good in a centralized location. Of course, our schools would still have their local field but I sure think that such a facility would serve as our community college’s home field/facility for tournament.
On Jul 27, 9:39 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
A collective partnership would be great. A great opportunity for the LNG companies to win some “brownie points” if they sponsor some of the cost. Perhaps, as much as 50% of the cost between Bradwood and Oregon LNG. Imagine some creaive funding solution and leverage. Great opportunities to develop to enrich the community.
On Jul 27, 9:40 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
A decent 30-50 acres site. Space included for parking and open spaces/parks and possible on-site food areas. Parking structures not required or needed at this time. However, some additional 15 acres should be available to add parking in form of parking structures in the future if the need arises as well as additional facilities.
On Jul 27, 9:41 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
It be cool to develop in great taste, such a facility. If we can find a 75 acres site, then we are good for MANY years to come. If it is worth doing, it is worth doing right in phases. Whenever possible, to be “green"/sustainable.
Rick Balkins
Building Designer
On Jul 27, 9:42 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
I agree, students shall be involved (that is students of local schools, our community college, and public).
On Jul 27, 9:43 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
However, these projects are required by law to be designed by a licensed design professional when ever the structure exceeds 4000 sq.ft. in ground area and/or exceeds 20-ft height from lowest floor to highest overhead interior finish. Smaller structure, however, the plans shall be prepared by a qualified design professional.
On Jul 27, 9:47 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
Kids can’t prepare and submit construction documents. Against the law and building code, IIRC.
PS: The 400 character limit sucks. Could at least make it 400 words or 500 words not characters. I manaully placed this longer message in multiple pieces. NO special software was used.
On Jul 27, 9:53 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
I coached US Amateur Hockey for 15 years at all levels and yes it definitely is a deterent for the majority of all who participate but, as with all things there are exceptions and failures of which none of us are immune.
I have seen the sport perform miracles in the lives of kids that had no direction but found it on the ice and completely turned their lives around but, it is a sport for all.
On Jul 27, 9:56 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Rick, most of us do have then common sense to not take stuff too literally but, students can play a huge role in the development of project like this and this in itself could have a positive impact on their lives to lead them in a positive direction.
Hell, look at yourself and your involvement in the future of “The College”.
On Jul 27, 9:59 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
Though, I am irritating Tyran Hartill, now. Patrick, it is probably safe to say that it isn’t just ice sports but certainly like any sport with good coaches, it can change the direction of individuals because they feel they are part of something and not being ignored.
On Jul 27, 10:04 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
Absolutely, Patrick. It is being part of something that makes a diffence in their lives. Even the transistion center boys and girls that worked with us on the ASOC theater is being touched with opportunities that they can feel proud of in heart. It helps heal their lives.
On Jul 27, 10:19 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Who’s the idiot with the idea to stifle our speech by allowing only 400 characters on this site and for what purpose, to pimp for another dried Salmon Matters clone?
Don’t even think about copying and pasting a reference statement as that counts as well.
On Jul 27, 10:28 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
The policy on comments is currently 300 “WORDS” not characters. I can understand that. Tryan, characters is the letters, numbers, symbols. If it can’t count by words try using the average number of letters in a word like 5-10 letters. So I suggest, 5000 characters. Including spaces.
On Jul 27, 10:45 PM, Justin wrote:
Rick Balkins wrote:
It be cool to develop in great taste, such a facility. If we can find a 75 acres site
Who is going to pay for it, you and McGee?
On Jul 27, 11:00 PM, Emil E. "Swede" Nyberg wrote:
You are paying for it now by the crime it creats by not having things for young people to do. I reality a lot of the money could be raised from foundations and donations. We could include a gym and ice rink in a YMCA or a Boys and Girls Club along with billards and pool tables.
Except for a few disgruntled posters I feel this is the best blog going
On Jul 27, 11:10 PM, Wendy wrote:
A small group of people wanted a skate park. They worked together at finding a site for it, designing it, looking for sponsors for it, and kept presenting that idea until they won community support. The thing is, they did more than talk about it. They worked for it. You can’t keep slapping people in the face and then wonder why they don’t want to work with you.
On Jul 27, 11:18 PM, Wendy wrote:
A BIG community center could/should be a part of the business park. It is a central location, on the bus line, and if someone had the smarts in how to present it to Warrenton city council, building one could somehow be put into the fees for businesses that are building out there. IF the enthusiasm can be generated that this is what the KIDS, adults and families want businesses will build something that draws customers.
On Jul 27, 11:27 PM, just a question wrote:
Why is it okay and reasonable for the Daily Astorian to have a word limit but “stifling speech” when it is done here when one can post over and over again here, but the Daily Astorian rarely lets people post continuously?
On Jul 27, 11:36 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
Justin: It is only an idea at this time and there are people with interest in a variety of sports. Once upon a time ago, we use to have baseball, soccer and football all in the area of JWF, hospital, theater and aquatic center. Of course, prior to that, it was Scow Bay.
On Jul 27, 11:40 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
It isn’t word limit but certainly not a character limit as ridiulous as 400 characters. The DA has to verify the messages is written by the writer and second - the DA publishes in paper the comments. The NCO doesn’t so it shouldn’t have them. Different mediums and reasons.
On Jul 27, 11:44 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
There is a difference between printed media and online media. The reason for the word limit here is an attempt against people commenting. All because of some WHINERS here complaining about messages posted. Interesting. I prefer to write one message to convey thought then 10.
On Jul 28, 7:36 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
On Jul 27, 11:18 PM, Wendy wrote:
A BIG community center could/should be a part of the business park. If the enthusiasm can be generated that this is what the KIDS, adults and families want businesses will build something that draws customers.
Don’t forget Corps. like Nike and their P.L.A.Y. Program that supports deserving Community Sports programs, among others
On Jul 28, 9:42 AM, Emil "Swede" Nyberg wrote:
And do not forget there are over 40 fortune 500 Corps that will help fund a Boys and Girls Club. I have that list.
On Jul 28, 12:01 PM, Brian Balda wrote:
All of you are ignorant to the real problem. Lack of something to do isn’t the problem. Addiction is. If you think for a second that teens won’t be smoking dope behind the place, you have all forgotten what you were like as a teen. If you’re an addict you’re an addict, what there is or isn’t to do won’t change the outcome. People who sit behind a desk and give their opinions are part of the problem.
On Jul 28, 12:20 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
So what do we do Brian?
Nothing but read lip service from some failing politician trying to save face?
Looks pretty much like nothing is working so far and what does a kid do on a Weekend around this place anyway?
Maybe it just may work.
I’ve seen it work but as with all things there are failures as I well know also but it’s a sound program and the majority will benefit.
What failed you?
On Jul 28, 2:10 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
All kids or frankly humans have addictive nature behind them. It is partly genetics of human race. However, substances like such draws on those factors. The crowds that does smoking got started because they were ignored by their parents (and even school) and do this stuff as part of spite. Start at the beginning of the cycle.
On Jul 28, 2:13 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
If parents BE parents and care and give attention to kids and guide them on the right path from start then this problem begins to gradually disappear. Raise children to know what is right and wrong and the consequences. Show them the truth with care. That is part of it. Not all.
On Jul 28, 2:16 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
Those that are already on the path of addiction and crime. That takes other approaches. Here, the idea is to provide purpose and self-worth. Alot of it is self-esteem issues and being ignored and ignored. There will be crimes, always. But we can work to minimize it. Give purpose and meaning. They need to WANT to make change.
On Jul 28, 2:19 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
In time, they will. Don’t force them to change. Human nature is to do the opposite of oppression/forced upon. With meaning and purpose in their mind, they change. Human mind can over power ANY drug or alcohol addiction. It takes the will and desire and through time and careful work and practice, they will succeed.
On Jul 28, 2:37 PM, Brian Balda wrote:
Okay Balkins, obviously you have no clue. Saying that the human mind can over come any drug or alcohol addiction. addiction is a disease per the american medical assoc. So can my sister who has cancer use her mind to overcome that? and Mr.McGee, I failed me.Then the system that I so easily manipulated.
On Jul 28, 2:47 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
They use that word for psychological issues as well as biological. In the medical association, they have multiple categories for which the word “disease” is used. Some are purely psychological while others biological. What do they give you for addiction typically - a placibo. Now what’s that? A tic-tac? It isn’t a disease like cancer.
On Jul 28, 2:48 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Did all that stuff Rick.
You could never had convinced me one of my children would succumb to any addiction but, it happened anyway.
No broken home.
Good sound values
Caring parents
A great athletic future, being courted by many colleges.
It happened anyway.
On Jul 28, 2:49 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
There is no answer but to offer sound, positive opportunities in a community can only be of benefit to many.
Brian is right in many ways but we just cannot say his viewpoint and negativity is correct either and just let something positive slip away when or if the opportunity should present itself.
On Jul 28, 2:52 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
It’s not like AIDS or Alzheimer’s or ALS. Addiction is a behavior trait. It can be attributed to by other diseases or disorders like ADD. However, it takes additional work for some, the effects can be controlled and dealt with. all humans have addiction as a behavior trait. We show it in different ways.
On Jul 28, 3:02 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
I never said there is a perfect solution. There will never be. The crowd that you son came across has their history. If that crowd had a different upbringing or whatever that would have directed them in a different direction, you son might not have got addicted because that crowd would not have.
On Jul 28, 3:04 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
Of course, your son was an exception to the earlier above but was influenced indirectly by the above. A cascadinging domino effect. It the source of the problems can greatly reduce what happen to your son from happening to others in similar ways.
On Jul 28, 6:03 PM, action or forget about it wrote:
It does take a combination of things for someone to chose the right path and the wrong path. A resourceful community is but one part of the equation. So far Balda has only bashed everything, without offering something that could work, and McGee has bashed someone who has told us what the county IS doing so far. It can be seen, through these examples, why it is hard to get administration involved in anything.
On Jul 28, 6:08 PM, action wrote:
Emil, your ideas are great. If the Kiwanis can get a hold of that idea, or another group like that the project may have a chance. Balkins is great for actually DOING something, well known community activities. People who are willing to work towards a goal, instead of bitch for it, are what’s needed for this project to take off. If they don’t stick the drug into their bodies in the first place they won’t have to worry about addiction.
On Jul 28, 6:44 PM, Brian Balda wrote:
You want a solution stop punnishing addicts and treat them. I am an alcoholic, my father is a Professor and my Mom also has a college degree. I am the only one in my family who has ever broken the law.
I chose to, I was a soccer star and widely recruited. My negativity stems from watching a flawed system. peoples time and devotion is what is required. People like Chris Hoover,without his compassion I wouldn’t be sober.
On Jul 28, 7:01 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Do you feel sometimes Brian that they really don’t want you out of the system because all those in are money on the hoof?
I cannot tell you how many times I’ve heard that.
On Jul 28, 8:35 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
job security. Just two words.
On Jul 28, 10:36 PM, Emil E. "Swede" Nyberg wrote:
I do have the Astoria-Warrenton Kiwanis support into looking at starting a Boy’s and Girl’s Club here. It is a much bigger project than we can handle alone so need a bunch of volunteers that are willing to make this happen.
On Jul 28, 10:37 PM, Emil E. "Swede" Nyberg wrote:
A few locations could be to the West of the Aquatic Center, Then maybe ad a second story and put in a gym. Or if we wanted to really make a community center we might be able to get the land that Astoria, Clatsop County and the State own around Sievley (SP) Park down Williamsport Road and to the recycle center. We could build ball fields ect.
On Jul 29, 1:14 AM, Name (required) wrote:
there are ballfields, organized leauges, school sports and activities. There’s an aquatic center, 4H, churches and church groups. And there is still and always will be a percentage of citizens that will become drug addicts and alcholics. Creating another venue for activities DOES NOT ADDRESS THE DISEASE OF ADDICTION
For God’s sakes, look how many well known college and pro atheletes have drug and alcohol problems.
On Jul 29, 1:17 AM, Rick Balkins wrote:
That’s an option. I see to viable locations. One up on the hill in Astoria and another in Warrenton area.
In either case, I would support work in either location. The hillside location and closeness to CCC is an option. cont. to msg #2.
On Jul 29, 1:21 AM, Rick Balkins wrote:
I would be willing to provide conceptual plans (ultimately, we would need an architect/engineer for final plans) for such project. We need a site, develop program and also funding before even pursuing such. Such should not be built solely for purposes of curbing addiction problems.
On Jul 29, 6:40 AM, Emil E. "Swede" Nyberg wrote:
Rick you are correct, it should also be built for the 100s of kids in first thru 5th grade that are at home alone after school. I am looking for sources of funds as our Club authorized me to, also compiling a list of volunteers to help.
On Jul 29, 7:24 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Put me on the list “Swede”.
As a matter of fact it would be interesting to advertise and have a formation meeting for those interested in a concept of needs of such a facility.
Sonny Park wants indoor racquetball and tennis courts...another propective participant.
Got to this site for a model up in Tacoma http://www.sprinker.org
On Jul 29, 8:06 AM, Country Boy wrote:
Wow! Thanks Patrick, What a great consecpt. I do have a few other people discussing this also to see if their groups would want to partisipate. I will be doing a lot of traveling for Kiwanis as I am the incomming District Club “Revitalization Chair” I would like to see if we can find a few more potential people to get involved and set a meeting for the week of the 25th of August. Lets see what we can do.
On Jul 29, 9:27 AM, Brian Balda wrote:
Job Corps does good things for our community, I personally know several who have changed their lives.Things the way they are don’t work.So change it. I do think a community center and ice rink is a great idea.And I’d be happy to volunteer my time.Buthow many of you really want a felon involved?
On Jul 29, 9:28 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
If you wish to focus on this issue further you go to this discussion if you wish.
http://grassrootspeople.blogspot.com/2008/07/are-we-ready-for-new-multi-use.html
On Jul 29, 9:34 AM, Brian Balda wrote:
And Balkins you’re right addiction is a disease of the mind.Do you have any first hand experience?There is no pill for it and they don’t give you a placeebo.It begins with a decision to stop.Followed by a complete change of everything one’s learned.Not to mention the guilt of the shitmess one’s created.How did you learn to lie?
On Jul 29, 9:39 AM, Brian Balda wrote:
You learned to lie from your parents, i.e. Santa Claus,ToothFairy, EasterBunny,ect. as an example had nothing to do with your upbringing.
thats human nature. People make choices everyday, some good some bad.
So is life,being held accountable is part of the process. But being addicted to drugs or alcohol shouldn’t be a crime.
On Jul 29, 9:48 AM, Rick Balkins wrote:
I haven’t had addictions to drugs or alcohol, myself. Other forms of addictions, back to human nature. I agree. From my understanding, it isn’t being addicted that is a crime. Pocession of illegal drugs or doing certain activities while under influence of intoxicants as its called universally is a crime.
On Jul 29, 11:43 AM, point of order wrote:
“But being addicted to drugs or alcohol shouldn’t be a crime.” No, but the behavior? A drunk slaps the crap out of his wife or child. Should that crime have consequences or should the wife or child suck it up? The person high on meth wants sex, grabs what s/he can and later finds out it was a child, isn’t that act a crime?
On Jul 29, 11:57 AM, noah tollefson wrote:
i want to express my gratitude to the people in this comunity that always believed in me and never gave up hope.the programs offered by community corrections were there to help when i was ready to make that choice to break the cycle.i had to make that choice,nobody could make it for me.i thnk its important to have programs like drug court and the transition center available for the people that are ready to make that decision to change their life.
On Jul 29, 12:03 PM, noah tollefson wrote:
this community does not need a new jail. we need to focus on drug and alcohol recovery. we also need to target kids in junior high and high school and educate them about what the lifestyle i chose to live will eventually lead to.
On Jul 29, 12:56 PM, guest wrote:
Your right, we need to target the kids in middle school and high school. I can’t think of anyone but you to speak to the kids.
The dare program was all about the money!
Speak to the students about measure 11 crimes.
Recovery is the answer, we have so little here help here.
On Jul 29, 2:25 PM, r-e-s-p-e-c-t wrote:
Kids see what cops get away with and lose respect for the laws. Breaking the law isn’t bad, getting caught is. What an adult sees as a bad example in a politician most kids don’t even know exists. Its the cops they see, its the legal system they are involved with. Ask a kid to name the commissioners they can’t name one. Ask them name some cops.
On Jul 29, 7:59 PM, Brian Balda wrote:
To point of order. Yes those are crimes that are punnished,and should be.But treat the mittigating factor that isnt the underlying issue. And yes people like Noah should be talking to9n the youth.But reality is that A.P.D. or CCSO doesn’t want this to happen.
On Jul 29, 8:05 PM, Agreed! wrote:
You are CORRECT Balda! However, Cora Lane with the transition center does. And as much as you may have had problems with the center she has fought tooth and nail for programs for it. Programs that Marquis and Bergin have scoffed at and tried, repeatedly, to derail, undermine, underfund and understaff.
On Jul 29, 8:13 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
What exactly is the Transition Center all about?
What’s a typical day at that place?
Is it that just a body count prevails or does it actually do something productive?
Is this part of the breech between Sheriff/D.A. and the Board of Commissioners/Derickson?
On Jul 29, 8:14 PM, shaking head in disbelief wrote:
With the amount of damage that Marquis has done to the drug rehabilitation programs, his derogatory comments regarding drug court, and his attitude towards punishment it is with AMAZEMENT that one watches McGee promote the man. Bergin & Marquis’ motto for tourism in Clatsop County: Come for vacation, leave on probation, is one all business people should hear.
On Jul 29, 8:48 PM, whaaaaaaaaaaaaat? wrote:
Ask Judge Matyas what the transition center is and if all it is is part of the breech between Sheriff/DA and the Board of Commissioners/Derickson. Where do you come up with this loony stuff?
On Jul 29, 10:11 PM, Noah Tollefson wrote:
to answer your question McGee yes it does do something pruductive. they g.e.d program, they give people a chance to get a job while locked up. that gives them a chance to get back on their feet before they get out. when released with nothing i would survive with the only skills i had and they were very counter pruductive.
On Jul 30, 7:25 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Just asking a few simple questions folks and thank you Noah for attempting to answer them.
I agree with many that once a person goes through the system and is finally free of it, most times as well with a helluva bill to pay off, there is no program whatsoever by these same bureaucracies to help these people, through cooperation with local businesses, reassimilate themselves back into the community with decent job opportunities.
Why is that?
Is there such a program?
On Jul 30, 10:27 AM, Brian Balda wrote:
The transition center is a great concept.Yet it needs to be tweaked here and there to make it more productive.And limitations should be placed on the amount of times one can continually use it to escape jail.
On Jul 30, 10:31 AM, lola wrote:
Simple! Marquis, Bergin are against recovery. They both need the business.
The transition center is suppose to be about help.
I am surprised Mcgee asked the question, he who knows everything!
On Jul 30, 10:32 AM, Brian Balda wrote:
If one has been there over and over for a period of time,say a client has been there five times in the last 6 months.Exhibiting the same behavior then it’s obvious something isn’t working.I used it for what I needed,and am grateful it was there and that a few staff members invested their time to help me.
On Jul 30, 10:36 AM, Brian Balda wrote:
But not all the staff there are compassionate to ones struggle,yet seem to find the need to make ones struggle worse.My P.O.Patrick Mckerren,Justin Hecht,Barry Hazel,and Cora Lane all took the time to listen and correct my many problems.But I had to show I was ready. People can change.
On Jul 30, 11:00 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
On Jul 30, 10:31 AM, lola wrote:
Simple! Marquis, Bergin are against recovery. They both need the business.
The transition center is suppose to be about help.
I am surprised Mcgee asked the question, he who knows everything!
Great, positive input to the discussion Lola. Such logic and wisdom.
Why would I ask a question if I already knew the answer?